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- <text id=89TT1945>
- <title>
- July 24, 1989: Interview:Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1989
- July 24, 1989 Fateful Voyage:The Exxon Valdez
- </history>
- <article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- INTERVIEW, Page 56
- Russia's Prophet In Exile
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p>Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn publishes the first volume of his epic on
- the Bolshevik Revolution and gives a rare account of his life in
- Vermont
- </p>
- <p>By Paul Gray
- </p>
- <p> A handwritten sign hangs beside the door of the Cavendish,
- Vt., general store: NO REST ROOMS. NO BARE FEET. NO DIRECTIONS
- TO THE SOLZHENITSYNS. An intriguing story can be read between
- these lines: not only the presence in this small (pop. 1,355)
- Vermont town of a world-renowned Russian author but also the
- determination of his adopted Yankee neighbors to protect his
- privacy.
- </p>
- <p> Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn arrived in Cavendish with his wife
- Natalya and four sons in 1976, some 2 1/2 years after he had
- been charged with treason and forcibly exiled from the Soviet
- Union. Settling in at a 50-acre mountain retreat, purchased with
- royalties from Western publications of his works, the author of
- such books as Cancer Ward and The First Circle gradually
- disappeared from headlines and public view. Admiring pilgrims
- hoping for a glimpse of the 1970 Nobel laureate--as well as
- suspected KGB snoops--were discouraged by the natives and by
- an impressive security system ringing the enclosure.
- </p>
- <p> These outward signs of reclusiveness prompted much
- speculation. What was Solzhenitsyn doing in his bucolic
- isolation? After 13 years, an answer is finally emerging, and
- it is mind boggling. Aided by Natalya ("I don't think I could
- have done it without my wife"), he has constructed a virtual
- factory of literature. Laboring nearly twelve hours a day, seven
- days a week in a three-story building behind his house that
- serves both as a workplace and library and as a typesetting and
- proofreading center, he has produced more than 5,000 printed
- pages in Russian of an epic called The Red Wheel. Using the
- techniques of fiction but based on exhaustive historical
- research, this project aims at nothing less than a vast overview
- of the events leading up to and culminating in the Russian
- Revolution of 1917.
- </p>
- <p> It will be years before the complete cycle of novels is
- available in English. But an enormous preview of what lies in
- store is being published this week as August 1914 (Farrar,
- Straus & Giroux; 854 pages; $50 hardback, $19.95 paper). This
- novel first appeared in English in 1972; after his banishment
- from the U.S.S.R., Solzhenitsyn was free to explore new troves
- of archival material, particularly at Stanford's Hoover
- Institution, and has now expanded the text by some 300 pages.
- Much of the additional material concerns the evil (in
- Solzhenitsyn's view) activities of Lenin during Russia's hasty
- entrance into World War I, and the heroic (ditto) career of
- Pyotr Stolypin, the Prime Minister under Czar Nicholas II who
- was assassinated in 1911 by an anarchist named Dmitri Bogrov.
- Translated by Harry T. Willetts, this version is essentially a
- brand-new work.
- </p>
- <p> And it is not, it must be added, a day at the beach. Those
- who feel guilty, summer after summer, about not reading War and
- Peace can positively grovel at the prospect of the
- unquestionably difficult and demanding August 1914. It offers
- an encompassing narrative, told from dozens of different
- perspectives, of Russian life circa 1914 and of the nation's
- stark unpreparedness for the military offensive launched against
- Germany in August of that year. With this story Solzhenitsyn
- mixes snippets from contemporary newspapers, a succession of
- official documents and a series of "Screens," scenes described
- as if they were intended for a film script. The overall effect
- of this avalanche of information is daunting indeed.
- </p>
- <p> But patient readers will be amply rewarded. The maze of
- detail can be captivating. Characters are introduced and then
- vanish for hundreds of pages, only to reappear memorably. At the
- same time, individual identities are forged and melted in the
- crucible of history. Throughout the panoramic events, a
- persistent voice points out the folly and tragedy of what is
- being recorded: a cataclysm that wrecked a nation and changed
- the modern world.
- </p>
- <p> Late in the 20th century, Solzhenitsyn has produced a 19th
- century icon, a saga that presupposes a readership intelligent
- and leisured enough to follow and stick with it. Coming from
- someone else, this novel--not to mention the looming immensity
- of The Red Wheel--would seem either quixotic or an example of
- monumental hubris. But the author, 70, has spent his adult life
- challenging impossible odds, and recent events indicate that he
- may be winning.
- </p>
- <p> Suddenly, his reputation in the Soviet Union is soaring.
- The monthly Moscow literary journal Novy Mir will soon begin
- publishing excerpts from The Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn's
- searing account of political prisoners, himself included, in the
- extended network of Stalinist labor camps; the entire work will
- also be published in book form. And the Union of Soviet Writers
- recently announced the reversal of its 1969 decision to expel
- the author from its ranks for "antisocial behavior" and called
- on the Supreme Soviet to give back Solzhenitsyn's citizenship.
- </p>
- <p> Vadim Borisov, the Novy Mir editor who is handling
- Solzhenitsyn's literary affairs in the Soviet Union, has no
- doubts about the author's importance to his homeland: "If all
- of Solzhenitsyn's works had been published in their time and
- not banned, the character of Russian prose today would be
- different. When his epic historical cycle is read in its
- entirety, it will have the same significance for Russian
- literature as Dante's Divine Comedy has for European
- literature."
- </p>
- <p> In his splendid exile in Vermont, the author busies himself
- preparing the final pages of The Red Wheel. With the major work
- of his crowded, harrowing life all but behind him, he strikes
- loved ones and friends as more relaxed. His eye now in life, as
- it has always been in his writing, seems serenely and
- confidently fixed on eternity.
- </p>
- <p> In his first major American interview since 1979,
- Solzhenitsyn reflects on his work, his past and his country's
- turbulent history:
- </p>
- <p> Q. The novel August 1914 was first published in 1971 in
- Russian, and now the English translation of a completely new
- edition is just being published. Why did you feel it necessary
- to add some 300 pages to the original manuscript?
- </p>
- <p> A. The chapter on Lenin is the first addition. But the
- greater number of new chapters came from the fact that, with the
- years, I understood that the movement toward revolution and its
- causes could not be understood simply in terms of World War I,
- 1914. My initial conception was one that the majority of those
- in the West and East today share, namely that the main decisive
- event was the so-called October Revolution and its consequences.
- But it became clear to me gradually that the main and decisive
- event was not the October Revolution, and that it wasn't a
- revolution at all. What we mean by revolution is a massive
- spontaneous event, and there was nothing of the sort in October.
- The true revolution was the February Revolution. The October
- Revolution does not even deserve the name revolution. It was a
- coup d'etat, and all through the 1920s the Bolsheviks themselves
- called it the "October coup." In the Soviet Union they
- consciously and artificially replaced the February Revolution
- with the October one.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Do you think, then, that the February Revolution was
- more of a break with Russian history than the October
- Revolution?
- </p>
- <p> A. Yes, it was much more of a break. The February system--if you can call it that--never even got established before it
- already started to collapse. It was collapsing from week to
- week. The October coup only picked up the power that was lying
- on the ground and that belonged to no one.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Why did you decide to call the entire cycle of novels
- The Red Wheel, and why do you refer to each different stage in
- the narrative as a "knot" (uzel in Russian)?
- </p>
- <p> A. We are not talking about the wheels of a car, after all.
- We are talking about a gigantic cosmic wheel, like a spiral
- galaxy, an enormous wheel that once it starts to turn--then
- everybody, including those who turn in it, becomes a helpless
- atom. A gigantic process that you can't stop once it has
- started. And I used the knots for the following reason: I
- started to deal with the period 1914-22. If I were to rewrite
- in detail about the period 1914-22, the volume would be too
- great, so I reached for episodes where I thought the course of
- events was being decided. These are the knots, the most decisive
- moments, where everything is rolled up and tied in a knot.
- </p>
- <p> Q. The one person in this novel whom you obviously admire
- greatly is (Russian Prime Minister Pyotr) Stolypin. How would
- you summarize his role in Russian history?
- </p>
- <p> A. What is characteristic is that during the years he was
- active, conservative circles considered him the destroyer of
- Russia. And the Kadets (Constitutional Democrats), who
- considered themselves liberals but were in fact radicals in the
- European context, called him a conservative. Actually, he was
- a liberal. He thought that before creating civil society, we had
- to create the citizen, and therefore before giving the
- illiterate peasant all sorts of rights, you had to elevate him
- economically. This was a very constructive idea. Stolypin was,
- without doubt, the major political figure in Russian 20th
- century history. And when the revolution occurred, it was the
- free democratic regime of February 1917 that abolished all his
- reforms and went back to square one.
- </p>
- <p> For 70 years, we have been destroying everything in our
- country, the life of the people, its biological, ecological,
- moral and economic basis. Naturally, people look to the past for
- some point of support, some constructive idea. Now people are
- looking here and there and finally coming across Stolypin's
- reforms and how he dealt with the peasantry.
- </p>
- <p> Q. How do you see Lenin in the whole complex of Russian
- culture?
- </p>
- <p> A. Lenin had little in common with Russian culture. Of
- course, he graduated from a Russian gymnasium (high school). He
- must have read Russian classics. But he was penetrated with the
- spirit of internationalism. He did not belong to any nation
- himself. He was "inter" national--between nations. During
- 1917, he showed himself to be in the extreme left wing of
- revolutionary democracy. Everything that happened in 1917 was
- guided by (proponents of) revolutionary democracy, but it all
- fell out of their hands. They were not sufficiently consistent,
- not sufficiently merciless, while he was merciless and
- consistent to the end, and in that sense his appearance in
- Russian history was inevitable.
- </p>
- <p> Q. The English philosopher Bertrand Russell, who was a
- self-professed atheist, met Lenin and said he thought Lenin was
- the most evil man he had ever met. Do you think Lenin was evil?
- </p>
- <p> A. I never met Lenin, but I can confirm this. He was
- uncommonly evil.
- </p>
- <p> Q. What do you mean by evil?
- </p>
- <p> A. The absence of any mercy, the absence of any humanity in
- his approach to the people, the masses, to anyone who did not
- follow him precisely. If anyone deviated the least little bit
- from him, like the Mensheviks, for example, he turned on them,
- he reviled them, he used every term of imprecation against them.
- He hated them. Even without using the word "evil" in a broad,
- metaphysical sense, you can still apply this word to Lenin in
- its everyday meaning.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Some critics have accused you of anti-Semitism on the
- basis of your depiction of the terrorist Bogrov in August 1914,
- and one writer even used the words "a new Protocols of the
- Learned Elders of Zion" to describe the book. What is your
- response to these accusations?
- </p>
- <p> A. I described Bogrov in the most realistic way, with every
- detail of his life, his family, his ideology and his behavior.
- I recognized his brother's interpretation of him as the most
- correct and convincing. In no way did I belittle the heroic
- impulse that moved him. I think that the application of the term
- anti-Semitic to August 1914 is an unscrupulous technique. I had
- earlier thought this was possible only in the Soviet Union. The
- book was not yet available because I had not released it, but
- people stated quite loudly that this was a disgusting,
- imperialist, revolting, loathsome book, etc. It wasn't possible
- to check what was being said, because people couldn't obtain the
- book.
- </p>
- <p> But what is really at issue here? The word anti-Semitism is
- often used thoughtlessly and carelessly, and its actual meaning
- becomes soft and squishy. I would propose the following
- definition: anti-Semitism is a prejudiced and unjust attitude
- toward the Jewish nation as a whole. If one accepts this
- definition, it becomes clear that not only is there no
- anti-Semitism in August 1914 but it would be impossible to have
- anti-Semitism in any genuinely artistic work. No real artist
- could be prejudiced and unjust toward any entire nation without
- destroying the artistic integrity of his entire work. A work of
- art is always multidimensional, is never made up of empty
- abstractions.
- </p>
- <p> My novel has no generalizations about the Jewish nation in
- it. In writing a book one cannot always ask, How will this be
- interpreted? You have to think, What actually happened? My duty
- was to describe things as they happened.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Do you believe the completed Red Wheel will be published
- some day in the Soviet Union?
- </p>
- <p> A. I have no doubt about that.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You have said your writings must return to the Soviet
- Union before you are willing to do so.
- </p>
- <p> A. Yes. I worked 53 years on The Red Wheel. Everything I
- have thought, discovered and worked over in my mind has gone
- into it. If I had to return to the Soviet Union prior to The Red
- Wheel, I would be sort of mute. No one would know where I stood.
- I would have expressed nothing. Once people read it, then we can
- talk. The book has to be available at every bookstore in the
- U.S.S.R.
- </p>
- <p> But more generally, my return does not depend only on me.
- The Soviet authorities have never yet rescinded the charge of
- treason that was lodged against me. There, I am considered
- subject to criminal sanctions for betraying my own country.
- </p>
- <p> (Natalya Solzhenitsyn interjects:) The day before he was
- exiled, he was formally accused of treason. Nobody has ever
- changed this.
- </p>
- <p> (Solzhenitsyn continues:) And then, instead of maybe
- shooting me, they exiled me.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You have said you are a writer in the 19th century
- Russian tradition. What do you mean by this?
- </p>
- <p> A. It does not mean following precisely the genres and the
- artistic techniques of the period. Far from it. My material is
- entirely unusual and requires its own genres and its own
- technique. But it does mean maintaining the responsibility
- toward the reader, toward one's own country and toward oneself,
- which was found in Russian 19th century literature. They wrote
- very responsibly. They did not play games.
- </p>
- <p> Q. The American novelist Henry James once described Russian
- novels as "huge, loose, baggy monsters." Your own Red Wheel
- epic will result in several thousand pages, many times larger
- in fact than War and Peace. Is there something about the Russian
- condition and Russian literature that asks for much greater
- length in the novel than is usual in other countries?
- </p>
- <p> A. Mine is indeed very large, I admit. There is an
- aphorism: He who forgets his own history is condemned to repeat
- it. If we don't know our own history, we will simply have to
- endure all the same mistakes, sacrifices and absurdities all
- over again. This book is not designed to be read through easily,
- for amusement, but to understand our history. And to understand
- our history, I feel that my readers definitely need this book.
- </p>
- <p> Q. So then, in your view, literature continues to have a
- very high, moral, philosophical and political purpose?
- </p>
- <p> A. Yes, in Russia it's always been that way.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You have been compared with both Tolstoy and
- Dostoyevsky, both in scope of your subject matter and in your
- treatment of the psychology and ideas of your characters. What
- is your relationship to each of these two authors?
- </p>
- <p> A. I have a very great feeling of respect and kinship to
- both of them, although in different ways. I am closer to Tolstoy
- in the form of the narrative, of the delivery of material, the
- variety of characters and circumstances. But I am closer to
- Dostoyevsky in my understanding of the spiritual interpretation
- of history.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Did you feel a sense of destiny even when you were quite
- young, that you had something very important to write, to tell
- the world?
- </p>
- <p> A. Apparently, there is some sort of intuition. We don't
- know where it comes from, but we have it. From the age of nine,
- I knew I was going to be a writer, although I didn't know what
- I was going to write about. Shortly after that, I was burned by
- the revolutionary theme, and so, starting in 1936, at age 18,
- I never had any hesitation about my theme, and there is nothing
- that could have deflected me from it. Sometimes you have a
- strange premonition. For instance, I started describing General
- Alexander Krymov. Knowing almost nothing about him, I simply
- made a provisional sketch as I imagined him, and later I learned
- that I had described him almost as though I had seen him. It
- was astonishing how well I guessed him.
- </p>
- <p> Q. As a young man, at one point you were a convinced
- Communist, a member of the Komsomol. How did you come to change
- your ideas and become a Christian believer?
- </p>
- <p> A. Let me make a correction. I was raised by my elders in
- the spirit of Christianity, and almost through my school years,
- up to 17 or 18, I was in opposition to Soviet education. I had
- to conceal this from others. But this force field of Marxism,
- as developed in the Soviet Union, has such an impact that it
- gets into the brain of the young man and little by little takes
- over. From age 17 or 18, I did change internally, and from that
- time, I became a Marxist, a Leninist, and believed in all these
- things. I lived that way up through the university and the war
- and up until prison, but in prison, I encountered a very broad
- variety of people. I saw that my convictions did not have a
- solid basis, could not stand up in dispute, and I had to
- renounce them. Then the question arose of going back to what I
- had learned as a child. It took more than a year or so. Other
- believers influenced me, but basically it was a return to what
- I had thought before. The fact that I was dying also shook me
- profoundly. At age 34 I was told I could not be saved, and then
- I returned to life. These kinds of upheavals always have an
- impact on a person's convictions.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Your ideas of both the Christian faith, in the form of
- Russian Orthodoxy, and of Russian nationalism have caused some
- critics to accuse you of being chauvinistic and xenophobic. Are
- you a Russian nationalist, and what does that mean to you?
- </p>
- <p> A. It is quite extraordinary the extent to which I have
- been lied about. I will give you some of the accusations that
- are made about me: that I am an advocate of theocracy, that I
- want the state to be run by priests. But I have never written
- such a thing. Also, I am supposedly nostalgic for the Czars and
- want our modern Communist Russia to go back to czarism. Now,
- aside from the fact that only an imbecile thinks that one can
- bring back the past, nowhere have I written anything of the
- sort. Nowhere have I written that the monarchy is an ideal
- system. Everything comes from the fact that in the Soviet Union,
- Nicholas II was characterized as less than human, as a monkey,
- as the ultimate scoundrel, but I described him as a real person,
- as a human being. In other words, I deviated from the norm.
- </p>
- <p> Some people distort things consciously, others just don't
- take the trouble to check their sources. It is remarkable, and
- it makes me ashamed of journalists. No one ever gives any
- quotes. The same is true for the charge that I am a nationalist.
- I am a patriot. I love my motherland. I want my country, which
- is sick, which for 70 years has been destroyed, and is on the
- very edge of death, I want it to come back to life. But this
- doesn't make me a nationalist. I don't want to limit anyone
- else. Every country has its own patriots who are concerned with
- its fate.
- </p>
- <p> Q. How do you account for the violent feelings about your
- views?
- </p>
- <p> A. In Europe the response to me is very varied. But in the
- Soviet Union and the U.S., it's like an assembly line: all
- opinions about me are exactly the same. In the Soviet Union I
- can understand it. It is due to the Politburo. They push a
- button, and everybody speaks the way the Politburo orders. But
- in the U.S. fashion is very important. If the winds of fashion
- are blowing in one direction, everybody writes one way and with
- perfect unanimity. It is perfectly extraordinary.
- </p>
- <p> Then there was the Harvard speech (in 1978), where I
- expressed my views about the weaknesses of the U.S., assuming
- that democracy is thirsty for criticism and likes it. Maybe
- democracy likes and wants criticism, but the press certainly
- does not. The press got very indignant, and from that point on,
- I became the personal enemy, as it were, of the American press
- because I had touched that sensitive spot. Some people said,
- "Why did our leaders take him into this country so uncritically?
- They shouldn't have taken him in."
- </p>
- <p> I have to say this was especially saddening, because the
- main idea of the Harvard speech--"A World Split Apart"--which is very important for the U.S. and Western thought, is
- that the world is not monolinear, not made up of homogeneous
- parts that all follow the same course. The mistake of the West,
- and this is how I started my Harvard speech, is that everyone
- measures other civilizations by the degree to which they
- approximate Western civilization. If they do not approximate it,
- they are hopeless, dumb, reactionary and don't have to be taken
- into account. This viewpoint is dangerous.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Today there are events of enormous significance taking
- place both in the Soviet Union and throughout the whole
- Communist world. Why do you choose to be silent about these
- changes?
- </p>
- <p> A. If I had started being silent at the onset of these
- changes, it might have been surprising. But I started in 1983,
- before there was even any suggestion of these changes. Was I
- going to interrupt my work and start acting as a political
- commentator? I didn't want to do that. I had to finish my work.
- I am over 70 years old, and age is pressing on me.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You have said the moral life of the West has declined
- during the past 300 years. What do you mean by that?
- </p>
- <p> A. There is technical progress, but this is not the same
- thing as the progress of humanity as such. In every civilization
- this process is very complex. In Western civilizations--which
- used to be called Western-Christian but now might better be
- called Western-Pagan--along with the development of
- intellectual life and science, there has been a loss of the
- serious moral basis of society. During these 300 years of
- Western civilization, there has been a sweeping away of duties
- and an expansion of rights. But we have two lungs. You can't
- breathe with just one lung and not with the other. We must avail
- ourselves of rights and duties in equal measure. And if this is
- not established by the law, if the law does not oblige us to do
- that, then we have to control ourselves. When Western society
- was established, it was based on the idea that each individual
- limited his own behavior. Everyone understood what he could do
- and what he could not do. The law itself did not restrain
- people. Since then, the only thing we have been developing is
- rights, rights, rights, at the expense of duty.
- </p>
- <p> Q. More than anything else, your reputation in world
- literature is linked to your searing portrayal of Soviet labor
- camps. Did your experience of the camps provide you with a
- dimension of understanding of Soviet life that you could not
- have had without it?
- </p>
- <p> A. Yes, because in those circumstances human nature becomes
- very much more visible. I was very lucky to have been in the
- camps--and especially to have survived.
- </p>
-
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
-
-